COPYPASTED FROM THE BRILLIANT DOCTOR STEELE.

This won't be offensive to most of my watchers (if not all), but I watched some drama unfold over the last day or so about yaoi pairings and yaoi in general.
I know I live in a little secluded bubble of solitude when it comes to drama for the most part, and I also live in a bubble of complete solitude when it comes to yaoi. Personally, at this point, I see het art for KH and I'm shocked (and it becomes something fresh and exciting, I might add). However, the attitudes against Kingdom Hearts yaoi in general really, really piss me off. In fact, at this point, I find it to be stereotyping fans of the genre and general bigotry to be the biggest problem.
Yes, I'll use the term "fans," as it'd be ignorant to assume all yaoi fans are female. There are male fans of yaoi, and they're all awesome from whom I've met, and I imagine they dislike be secluded from something they also enjoy.
I'll also point out there's a difference between "against" and "not a fan of." I'll use the term "against" to define the individuals that are actively, for lack of a better term with the same connotation, "bitching about" yaoi. "Not a fan of" denotes general apathy--for example, I'm not a fan of Ouran High School Host Club yaoi, and I prefer the pairings with Haruhi--but I certainly don't take to the streets with torches and curses for Hitachiin twincest. People who like the heterosexual or lesbian pairings over the gay pairings in Kingdom Hearts can do so without attacking those that like yaoi. We can live in one big hippie world of love, you know?
I'd also like to point out that I'm generally referring to KH yaoi during this, but I'll occasionally use examples from other series that I've had experience with.
Most people that I have encountered that dislike yaoi usually have the following complaints about yaoi:
1. "The characters aren't gay!"
2. "That's disgusting!"
3. "Yaoi fangirls are so annoying!"
4. "They don't like each other!"
There's probably more that I'm not thinking of right off the bat, but I'll run with these for the moment.
1. "The characters aren't gay!" - The first line of defense, which most yaoi fans immediately counter with what I call the "Nomura Statement"--that he left the characters' relationships ambiguous to allow for creativity of the player and allow them to be interactive within the world of Kingdom Hearts. That means that your Sora/Kairi has as much validity as my Sora/Riku, and vice versa. Honestly, it means that anything's possible. If you try to bring up "hints" of a pairing ("Sora and Kairi with the paopu fruit drawing"), they can be countered immediately with something else ("They're just friends!"/"Sora also cried about Riku and talks about him more in KHII."). According to Nomura's own statement about the game, you could say anything you like is true. I even hesitate when I say -I- dislike a pairing for KH, and generally like to emphasize that it's just my personal opinion. In short, no, the characters aren't gay, but they're not written as straight either. Personally, I like them all to be a mix to keep it lively.
2. "That's disgusting!" - I can't really argue against someone's beliefs that homosexuality/two men having sex are wrong. But to each their own. This just falls back onto the thought of general tolerance. They can have those thoughts, they can have those opinions, but using those opinions to entice fighting from people is just stupid. It's also called the back button. If you don't like Xigbar kissing Demyx, if you don't like Olette scat, if you don't like Roxas weight gain, if you just DON'T like it, then keep your mouth shut and take the higher ground, we'll respect you much more for it. Someone else's cuddling Axel/Roxas picture isn't a personal forum on the evils gays. Hell, feel free to have it on your journal, it's your journal and that's an appropriate place to rant, I think. And, if some yaoi fan comes up to your journal, ranting and raving on your opinion, politely tell them in so many words that they need to STFU, which brings me to the next point...
3. "Yaoi fangirls are so annoying!" - Every fandom has annoying fans. Yaoi fans find certain yaoi fans annoying--I know I do. It's called human nature, you're going to like some people, and you're going to get pissed off at others. But saying that a certain group of people are "ALL" alike based on a personal experience of yours is simply stereotyping a group. I imagine most would think I was trivializing racism if I used an example of it here, so I won't. Most people against yaoi assume "all" fans are: under the age of 18, American, female, in high school, are overly zealous, "Weeaboo," are complete perverts, are stubborn to the point of ignorance, and hyper-defensive. Clearly, they have never bothered to visit y!gallery or gotten to know them. Yaoi fans are just as diverse as their non-yaoi counterparts, though, I'll admit the majority are female. The only thing I can say that yaoi fans are certainly ALL alike is on the fact they like a relationship between two males. Some don't like the sex aspect of yaoi because it makes them uncomfortable, some like only certain pairings at certain levels of closeness, some love every single flavor of the depravity rainbow like myself. As for the "weeaboo" terminology, I know that some fans desperately try to distance themselves from the term--my rant on the use of the term is for another day. Also, clearly these people have never seen bara art. :3 Not all yaoi is created equal, like I said.
4. "They don't like each other!" - This is more so a problem encountered by fans of what I call "rival" pairings--two characters that dislike each other are paired up. You know, like Marluxia/Vexen, Axel/Saix, Zechs/Heero, Orochimaru/Sasuke, Grimmjow/Ichigo, and the like. At least for Kingdom Hearts, the defense of "Nomura has no pairings!" can be somewhat used here, but for Marluxia/Vexen, where Marluxia clearly brought about the death of who he's paired with, that's when the best reasoning comes into play:
Who the FUCK cares? Seriously, if a person enjoys a pairing in their series of choice, what is so inherently wrong about it? Plus, most people have crafted their mental scenario of their favorite pairing, and made it their own. The way I love my favorite pairing isn't the way you may love the same pairing.
In conclusion, I'd also like to boil this down ultimately to "respect." Just be freaking NICE to each other. This message also goes to those participating in yaoi fan-on-yaoi fan drama.
--
Gods know, I can only agree and copy this in hopes of MOAR people seeing it. Spread the word. CIVILITY!
Devious Comments
*hugs*
Thank you, dear. :3
--
"I'm told the passage on the aesthetics of the Japanese toilet makes great beach reading as well." - my history teacher in an email.
"YOU CAN'T HIDE THE FACT THAT YOU'RE A BASEMENT DWELLER LOOKING AT FURRY PORN WITH BIG WORDS." - *Sora-X-Riku
Seriously though. I do love a bit of drama, when it gives me a chance to show off, but fighting within your own fandom is pretty retarded.
--
"I have great news!"
"I have bad news, let's hear yours first"
"I'm pregnant!"
"I just found out we're rela---oh my god."
~Larkahncieling
You got everything totally correct in a few paragraphs. Seriously, I hate ignorent people who always force their own opinion's on everyone else. It's not like everyone has to like THEIR ways. We all have our own opinion's, and it's sad that half of the people out there don't get the fact that everyone gets to share their own opinion's on everything.
But, yeah. Very good. (:
--
17<3
A number to show that love IS eternal, shining brightly beneath the moon.
-->[link] <--Xemsai
*YAOISM SHOULD BE A RELGION IF YOU BELIEVE THIS THEN PUT IT IN YOUR SIGGI*
It's good to see someone stand up and, while you and Roy are yourselves yaoi fans, trying to put across the points at an unbiased point-of-view. It's hard to do, I know, but it makes it much easier readong for people who look at it from either side.
And I agree.
I used to think of yaoi fans in those sterotypes too. Mainly because of the amount of it about but ontop of that, how the majority of yaoi fans are represented. It's far easier to run across someone who fits into that awful sterotype online than a slash fan who's calm, past their teens (though that's not to say all those in their teens are hard to stomach. No, that's not fair either), and look at it as more than something they get their personal kicks off, but it has reason and logic behind it.
Hell, your big explination of Marly/Vexen the other night was the most well-presented theory on two character's relationships than anything I've seen on slash that IS actually canon in its fandom by the word of said fandom's creator.
...if that made any sense? XD Kudos if you followed.
I doubt fandoms, most of all KH, is ever going to fully get along when it comes to pairings. It's so easy to say 'just click the back button' but to some people, they can't click it without rambling away their two cents on the matter.
What I hate is that those who aren't fans of slash get sterotyped now and again as well. Definatly not as much as slash girls (and I dug my own grave with my own label long ago, so I can't really do anything X3) but the amount of people who call me 'homophobic' because I'm not partial to a pairing of two ficitional characters just blows my mind - most of all the fact that they labeled my take on how I view the gays without even knowing me. I don't even make my sexuality public, so how do they know I'm not, like, a raving gay myself and just prefer yuri or something? XD And let's face it 'I have friends who are gay' is the most redundant excuse over-used by people who rant and rave about slash these days that it becomes meaningless, even if it is true.
That being said, I'm really feeling for you guys these days with the sterotypes dropped onto you. I really need to go back and double-check my gallery for things that could really insult slash fans. I've deleted some stuff, but I think there's more in there. >__>
The KH fandom is so over-run with hate that I can't see there being much hope for it other than to just kindly ask people that if they can't get along, to stick to their own side of the fence.
In the mean time, kudos to Roy for a well-typed thought on the subject, and you for the spreading of the word.
--
"MEEP!"
"GET ON THE HYDRA'S BACK!!!"
"Repliku took off and was followed by all 44+ Vexen replicas... I have no doubt in my mind that Vexen is a dirty old man." - *Sora-X-Riku
But still, I whole-heartedly push the whole "Back" button thing. Every time someone has disagreed with me, I tell them to use the back button and GTFO. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure this stuff out, ya know? There IS a way to get along with everyone if people will use their God/Evolution-given brains.
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I didn't want to come out storming with an ax to grind against non-yaoi pairings, because, frankly, I love some of them too. I think that you guys also get a bad end of the stick with being called "homophobes" just because you don't like it. It's just childish harassment, I think, and I'm sorry that people treat you guys the same way (where in the hell is the Golden Rule when you need it?).
In short, there needs to be more love in general, and I wish peaceful co-existence was possible XD.
--
"I'm told the passage on the aesthetics of the Japanese toilet makes great beach reading as well." - my history teacher in an email.
"YOU CAN'T HIDE THE FACT THAT YOU'RE A BASEMENT DWELLER LOOKING AT FURRY PORN WITH BIG WORDS." - *Sora-X-Riku
We do get a bit of rough treatment, but it's no way near as bad as what I've seen slash fans get. Since it's popular (both with the sane and...erm...not-so-sane fans?) it can wind up on the main page a fair bit and I cringe when I see the hate fly (because, you know, the artist had a big say on it getting there to 'rub it in people's faces'
Again, thanks for taking the high road and making a well thought-out piece of reading which didn't point fingers and just calmly explained the facts. We need more of this. :3
--
"MEEP!"
"GET ON THE HYDRA'S BACK!!!"
"Repliku took off and was followed by all 44+ Vexen replicas... I have no doubt in my mind that Vexen is a dirty old man." - *Sora-X-Riku
Cant we all just GET ALONG??? D:
(whats a Weeaboo? :'D )
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This Has Been A Freakin' Sweet Production
And really, I don't like being called a yaoi fan... I'm actually just a pervert :'D I like everything short of, say... inflation and explosion. And I've written Lexaeus/Vexen inflation/explosion fics before (traumatizing Roy is a sport!). The only reason I prefer yaoi and yuri over het is 'cause I'm a flaming fruitcake myself and see heterosexuality as funny and a bit weird. So if there's anyone out there qualified as unbiased, it's probably Roy and I, as we're both the same with our fandom preferences; anything and everything goes, with few exceptions. All the hate seems kinda silly.
Two things I've been lumped with in my time in the KH fandom is 'Yaoi-obsessed idiot', and 'underage b&'. The "you're under eighteen, therefore you have no comprehension of sex, relationships, love, hate, etc. All you're interested in is porn, because you're not allowed it" mentality REALLY hacks me off; especially as an ex-Y gallery connoisseur. I've seen twenty-eight year olds acting like three year olds, and they dare to tell me I'm too young to understand. it's like everyone thinks your eighteenth birthday is some kind of magical switch in your brain that makes you tolerant, wise and well-versed in all things sexual; and in New Zealand, where we're allowed to start to understand at sixteen, thinking like that always makes me raaaaaage.
And I'm getting off topic again >>; yaoi stereotypes, right.
Honestly, I thought all hetero fangirls/boys were egotistical snobs. Yaoi is as common as dirt on the internet, and the hetero shippers always seemed to look down on it as if their shit didn't stink. It annoyed me to be thought of as lesser just because of my taste, and I resented it. It wasn't until meeting you and calming down a bit that i started getting over that. XD; I still get a little bitter about it... that person that I so very carefully explained my reasoning behind 411 to? Told me right to my face, and I quote, "Yaoi fangirls can't tell the difference between friendship and sex (relationships)." Like I'm some kind of moron. RAAAAAAGE.
Though, I'm glad I presented myself well to you X'3 I love 411 passionately. And chya, I follow XD
I don't know what it is about the back button... it's like a mythological creature. There's never any proof that it's been used when it needs to be, only proof that it HASN'T been used, in the form of some idiot rambling in circles. I'm sure it gets used a lot more than we know-just, by it's very nature, we can't be told that it's being put into effect.
OH GOD. The 'homophobe' label. I hate the yaoi fangirl who dares to use that against someone just because boyxboy isn't their cup of tea; if there is anything out there that earns yaoi fans the collective title of 'idiotic,' it's that. I've actually had it thrown against me, and I'm a huge faggot who loves gay porn;
myself: "oh, hey, this is really pretty! I like how you've done Saix's hair, and Vexen's eyes are beautiful. Well done, even though it may not be a pairing I support, I think it deserves a fave because this is just beautiful"
Them: "OMFG U HOMOPHOBE DONT BRING YOUR HATE HERE BITCH FUCK U ITS CANON!!"
That exchange is practically copy-pasted, by the way. I was absolutely stunned, to the point where I didn't waste my time trying to explain that I'm not homophobic, nor hating, simply stating that their beautiful art moved me to faving a picture of a pairing I didn't even like.
Also, I ttly have friends that are gay. *shotthroughawall*
XD in honestly, the stereotypes don't bother me- I've divorced myself from the fandom almost completely. The only person I really indulge in it with is Roy, and as I've said before, she and I have tastes so similar I might as well just be fapping myself into a fangirlish frenzy. After a drama with Silvestris, I just backpedaled all the way back to the beginning of my love for Vexen/Marluxia and rewrote it as I saw fit, with no influence but my own and Roy's- it saved the fandom for me, certainly.
All the hate just brings everyone down. I know forums where Kingdom hearts fans are disregarded as a whole, their imput worthless, just because of the state of the fandom. it's a damn shame.
--
"I have great news!"
"I have bad news, let's hear yours first"
"I'm pregnant!"
"I just found out we're rela---oh my god."
~Larkahncieling
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